despite which the world is becoming a darker place so says the defense
secretary in one of the Sunday papers today the conflicts are laughing at
Europe's borders from the Middle East to Ukraine the old order is under threat
triggering large-scale migration around the world
the government is under intense pressure from Britain's allies and the military
here to keep up defense spending
I'm joined now by the defense secretary michael felon thank you very much need
for coming in I started the program is to find talking about this extraordinary
migration crisis in the Mediterranean there is no answer at the moment is that
no at the moment we're simply dealing with the symptoms of the problem helping
to rescue people in the Mediterranean HMS bulwark has been out there save
nearly 3,000 lives so far but that isn't going to deal with a profit objectively
are acting as a kind of ferry service for the people smugglers because what
we're doing is we're taking people like to see which is a good thing to do and
then we're taking to where they want to be in Europe which is which is doing the
smugglers job for them so I ask again each their longer-term answer to this
yes that's got to be a much more comprehensive approach tackling the
problem much further back dealing with the trafficking gangs building up
information about the people who are making money out of this and incredibly
dangerous journey with some nearly 2,000 people have died trying to cross the
Mediterranean and dealing with the problem much further back in the
countries that coming from when i was on hms bulwark couple of weeks ago they
told me they picked up migrants from over 20 different countries but in
practical terms the idea of us doing anything to break up people-smuggling
gams gangs indonesia and Somalia and stuff is for the birds isn't it
no I think we can do it we can pull the intelligence we all have as European
countries on these trafficking gangs we can get more information about the roots
we can tackle their financing and we can use our overseas aid budget and this is
where it should be used to help stabilize some of these countries and
discourage this kind of mass migration from so is there is a debate going on in
the cabinet about using aid in a different way to address these gun
problems
well a well-focused age should be you yes to help stabilize these countries to
prevent conflict breaking out to discourage mass migration so that we
don't have to fish people out of the Mediterranean later on what about a
slightly more aggressive use of our military now either to blockade the
Libya
coast or six set up kind of enclaves on libyan territory where migrants could be
returned to well it's a European problem now perhaps a half a million people
trying to cross this year it's called it was a surprise last year it could be it
could be many many more
so it's got to be done on a European basis and European ministers are looking
this week the next phase of this operation which is building up better
intelligence of who these gangs are where the boats are setting off from we
know already that traffickers are ringing the Italian coast guard and
telling them when the boats are setting off so we need to get to grips with the
operation itself and start to tackle the trafficking routes further back but
meanwhile we have a country libia which is basically falling to pieces thanks
partly to our intervention to get rid of Gaddafi we have ice is coming along the
coast and he seems to be very unlikely that we would be able to actually return
2migrants to Libya for that reason so this is a this is a problem of our own
making
well we're clearly right to get rid of get a free will right well we were right
to prevent what would have been a whole a horrific massacre in Benghazi what if
you remember why I realize e extending Isis right away along the African coast
well what we working for is a political settlement in libyan huh
getting the various parties there together so that we have a partner to
deal with to encourage a policy of return to get people to return we have
to break the link between rescuing people from the Mediterranean and and
and settlement because they'll keep coming they will if they think they're
going to be settled
absolutely and three and there is no sign of us being able to do that because
we can't return people to Libya or to Africa for all sorts of reasons we both
understand we can't create safe havens in Libya because it's too dangerous now
Isis are too close
it seems to be I i come back to . i just don't see where the answer is where
people can be returned to countries neighboring Libya that happens at the
moment of their tune is ian's of Moroccans or Algerians they can be
returned to to those countries but we've got to work harder at getting a
political settlement indicator that gives us an authority to negotiate with
and what about using our ships to blockade the libyan coast
well that's amended some out of Europe to look to see it's a very