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despite which the world is becoming a darker place so says the defensesecretary in one of the Sunday papers today the conflicts are laughing atEurope's borders from the Middle East to Ukraine the old order is under threattriggering large-scale migration around the worldthe government is under intense pressure from Britain's allies and the militaryhere to keep up defense spendingI'm joined now by the defense secretary michael felon thank you very much needfor coming in I started the program is to find talking about this extraordinarymigration crisis in the Mediterranean there is no answer at the moment is thatno at the moment we're simply dealing with the symptoms of the problem helpingto rescue people in the Mediterranean HMS bulwark has been out there savenearly 3,000 lives so far but that isn't going to deal with a profit objectivelyare acting as a kind of ferry service for the people smugglers because whatwe're doing is we're taking people like to see which is a good thing to do andthen we're taking to where they want to be in Europe which is which is doing thesmugglers job for them so I ask again each their longer-term answer to thisyes that's got to be a much more comprehensive approach tackling theproblem much further back dealing with the trafficking gangs building upinformation about the people who are making money out of this and incrediblydangerous journey with some nearly 2,000 people have died trying to cross theMediterranean and dealing with the problem much further back in thecountries that coming from when i was on hms bulwark couple of weeks ago theytold me they picked up migrants from over 20 different countries but inpractical terms the idea of us doing anything to break up people-smugglinggams gangs indonesia and Somalia and stuff is for the birds isn't itno I think we can do it we can pull the intelligence we all have as Europeancountries on these trafficking gangs we can get more information about the rootswe can tackle their financing and we can use our overseas aid budget and this iswhere it should be used to help stabilize some of these countries anddiscourage this kind of mass migration from so is there is a debate going on inthe cabinet about using aid in a different way to address these gunproblemswell a well-focused age should be you yes to help stabilize these countries toprevent conflict breaking out to discourage mass migration so that wedon't have to fish people out of the Mediterranean later on what about aslightly more aggressive use of our military now either to blockade theLibyacoast or six set up kind of enclaves on libyan territory where migrants could bereturned to well it's a European problem now perhaps a half a million peopletrying to cross this year it's called it was a surprise last year it could be itcould be many many moreso it's got to be done on a European basis and European ministers are lookingthis week the next phase of this operation which is building up betterintelligence of who these gangs are where the boats are setting off from weknow already that traffickers are ringing the Italian coast guard andtelling them when the boats are setting off so we need to get to grips with theoperation itself and start to tackle the trafficking routes further back butmeanwhile we have a country libia which is basically falling to pieces thankspartly to our intervention to get rid of Gaddafi we have ice is coming along thecoast and he seems to be very unlikely that we would be able to actually return2migrants to Libya for that reason so this is a this is a problem of our ownmakingwell we're clearly right to get rid of get a free will right well we were rightto prevent what would have been a whole a horrific massacre in Benghazi what ifyou remember why I realize e extending Isis right away along the African coastwell what we working for is a political settlement in libyan huhgetting the various parties there together so that we have a partner todeal with to encourage a policy of return to get people to return we haveto break the link between rescuing people from the Mediterranean and andand settlement because they'll keep coming they will if they think they'regoing to be settledabsolutely and three and there is no sign of us being able to do that becausewe can't return people to Libya or to Africa for all sorts of reasons we bothunderstand we can't create safe havens in Libya because it's too dangerous nowIsis are too closeit seems to be I i come back to . i just don't see where the answer is wherepeople can be returned to countries neighboring Libya that happens at themoment of their tune is ian's of Moroccans or Algerians they can bereturned to to those countries but we've got to work harder at getting apolitical settlement indicator that gives us an authority to negotiate withand what about using our ships to blockade the libyan coastwell that's amended some out of Europe to look to see it's a very
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